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Tonedeff Polymer Physicals…

Dekorum said:I hope nothing has shipped out without notifying us via email or Facebook, because I hardly check the forum anymore. Anyway, I just realized that I moved again in December so I had to send out another email to help@qn5.com to update my address *again*.

I hope that’s still okay..

I’m pretty sure Tone has said he will be sending out an email before shipping requesting any updates to mailing addresses.

So how’s the progress on the documentary going so far?

Is there an ETA on these shipping?

I’m burning the midnight oil here on this.
Finishing up the last round of tweaks/coloring/sound and then it’s off to the manufacturers. I cannot WAAAIT for y’all to see this. But fucking a, it’s been a ridiculous amount of work.

I’m intentionally keeping y’all in the dark on the doc, because it’s important to me that you experience it fully at one time with no spoilers or teases.

I have Lucy in NYC at the end of the month, so I 100% have to be done with all this documentary/physicals stuff by then. And we’ll begin the address confirmation process before we ship out.

Sidenote: If you ever have an idea to make a documentary by yourself… don’t. You’ll die.

I know we won’t get physicals by then (which I don’t think anyone expected would take this long) but I wonder if there will be anything special done for the one year anniversary of the Polymer digital release. At least we get a new Lucy Camp EP, on my birthday even.

Yeah, hopefully everything is alright with the process guys. It’s been quite some time so I’m starting to get a little worried here. I’m guessing at this point the manufacturers are having some issues.

Numonic said:I know we won’t get physicals by then (which I don’t think anyone expected would take this long) but I wonder if there will be anything special done for the one year anniversary of the Polymer digital release. At least we get a new Lucy Camp EP, on my birthday even.

JESUS, can’t believe it’s almost been a year. Still in awe of it though

I’m just putting this out there.. but I’d happily pay shipping twice to get the rest of the project now and the CD/Documentary at a later date (assuming that’s the only thing holding it up).

The wait has been too long.. need those remixes, instrumentals/acapellas, t-shirt, vinyl and artbook before the album vanishes into obscurity. Similarly it would be good to get another music video or remix single to get excited again and fill the wait.

It’s about to be sent to manufacturer and will be shipped this summer. FUCK..YES

Tone, will you still reach out to us regarding address changes or should we contact you?

I am so stoked for this and I would die if the package was shipped to the wrong address!

This album is a masterpiece, hope when the physicals come out it gets a second breath and the people who missed it the first time around get a chance to experience it.

Best album I’ve ever heard without having to think twice about it (although albums like Oneirology and Kid A come very close for me). I can’t wait to get all of the other pieces that we’ll receive with the physicals.

Is it still possible to place a order for the physical? Or am i way past due

I think you can still order the CD/DVD, but none of the special editions.

Edit: http://qn5.com/tonedeff/polymer/

Thanks bro just what i was looking.i honestly took a break on keeping up with qn5 around the time when all this was being released so all this is new music to me from tonedeff

Anyone have an update? I will wait forever if that is what it takes to hear this vinyl, but I am getting ready to see this project that was pre-ordered years ago to finally grace my eyes and doorstep.

Soooooo after many delays Polymer finally came out 15 months ago (pre-ordered 4.5 years ago) and the Summer officially ended a while ago too. Any hints as to what’s holding this up?

Some transparency would be appreciated.

Wow. When your hardcore fans are starting to feel this way, it’s not a good look at all Sad I’m feeling bad for Tone, he’s good people, but all this delays with physicals have that downright clusterfucky feel to them at this point.

Waiting on the pressing to come back from manufacturing.
There are ALOT of pieces to this, folks.
Shipping details forthcoming.

QN5 said:Waiting on the pressing to come back from manufacturing.
There are ALOT of pieces to this, folks.
Shipping details forthcoming.

Thanks for the update. Nice to hear it’s in the pressing stage.

JTX said:

QN5 said:Waiting on the pressing to come back from manufacturing.
There are ALOT of pieces to this, folks.
Shipping details forthcoming.

Thanks for the update. Nice to hear it’s in the pressing stage.

Yes! Just getting to this stage is such a massive relief.
Been reluctant to say anything until I have them in my hand.

HDC said:Wow. When your hardcore fans are starting to feel this way, it’s not a good look at all

I’m not trying to rub salt in any wounds here - but I think it’s time to address some weighty elephants in the room. I’ve tried to be as polite as possible frankly, because I (and many other “hardcore fans”) have felt that this situation has been handled poorly to say the least. Every time that I think about how poorly this release has been handled, I get slightly angry.. and then I try not to think about it for a few months - and then surprise surprise, no developments and the cycle continues.

The delays themselves are unacceptable at this point. I thought I was as supportive as they come.. but even I can’t stomach this 4.5 year bullshit (and no, none of us believed the original quote of “complete within 1 year”). 15 months after the album release is ridiculous and embarrassing (not including the likely 1-2 months extra it’ll take to arrive to my door minimum - assuming it doesn’t get fucked sideways by Christmas now) - and sadly, the thought of this fiasco is such a sore subject at this point that it’ll never have the impact arriving that it could or should have had, even when it does.

Now, life happens.. right? And I’m sure there’s a gigantic cocktail of personal, business, health and other related contributing factors responsible for this situation completely out of everyone’s hands, totally unavoidable and unforeseeable. But where has the communication been? These delays have been BRUTAL, but where has the transparency been to try and offset this disappointment? Where is the apology? The acceptance of responsibility? Genuine or otherwise? Where is the backtracking? Frankly if Tone had a bigger or less partisan audience this would have been an absolute PR nightmare - but we’ve just swallowed this one down for the team in silence, as we do, because we do. There’s been essentially nothing to compensate for this delay, cookie-cutter responses at best, often pure radio silence at worst. Just all-round, shoddy, customer service - for a product (yes, product) that people paid for.. literally years ago. This shoddy service btw = the antithesis of what made Tonedeff and QN5 Music so great and close to our hearts over a decade ago.

What the hell happened?

QN5 said:Been reluctant to say anything until I have them in my hand.

You never had to give out definitive dates - but being kept in the loop would have been nice.

If this documentary is finished.. why couldn’t it have been uploaded online and links spread to people who purchased the album? Why did it have to be 2 hours long - especially if that would create such a drastic delay? Do people even have CD/DVD players anymore? Where are all these music videos that were supposedly done? (There’s been 1 since the album dropped and technically it’s for a song that isn’t even on or representative of the album). Where are the remixes? It would have been a really easy win to have thrown one up here or there as a gesture. Snippets of the artbook? Some more interviews/livestreams?.. where’s the final ‘Polyblog’ that explains Phantom or the project as whole? Tonedeff fans waited 11 years for this album and it’s completely evaporated since the release date. Is that seriously because we expected it to get better press and reach a wider audience? If so, when did that matter? Are we not seeing any individual components because it’s ‘supposed to all be experienced at once’? If so, then at what point is it just not actually being experienced at all? At the point nobody cares anymore? When people start asking for refunds? And how am I supposed to support Quintic whilst this project is unfinished?

As a fanbase we’ve swallowed A LOT of delays (I haven’t even really thought about CATM seriously in years) - but this one has really hurt. Not just because of the timescale - but because it feels like we’ve been completely forgotten about. This delay has only really hurt the “hardcore fans”, the people who’ve been here the longest, put the most cash up front, the furthest in advance. And at no point does that seem to have been taken particularly seriously or attempted to be resolved. Things are so bad that I’m honestly worried that I’ll get called “entitled” for vocalising these concerns - like it’s unreasonable for me to be pissed off in these circumstances - or unreasonable for anyone to mention them. Well, I’ve thought about sending this message for at least 6 months now and restrained myself - but I feel like it’s a reasonable time to speak up. Just because it’s finally “on the way”, doesn’t mean we can brush it under the carpet.

And I apologise for the above ton of bricks - I get it’s not gonna make anything happen quicker - but I can’t stand being quiet on this anymore. If I ever learnt anything from you Tone, it’s to wear my heart on my sleeve, for better or for worse.

Let me be a fan again.

Let’s not compare frustrations, shall we? This project has twisted my entire life into an inescapable knot and I seriously feel like I’ve been on house arrest for the past 4 years (I can’t tour without this pressing). Your point about “it would be a PR nightmare with a bigger audience” is moot - If I was in that position to begin with, I wouldn’t have to do all this by myself in the first place.

Delays suck, but allow me to highlight: 1) I explicitly stated that there was no release date on the physicals because I knew it would take forever (And no one uses CDs anymore). 2) Remember, I made an album AND a documentary. It takes TEAMS of people YEARS to make EITHER of those things. I did it alone. For emphasis: ALONE. 3) This documentary is AS important to me as the album was. It might be more important overall.

Here’s what’s not in the doc: 4) I’ve been in poor health. Beyond the anxiety/depression/stress cycle, I had a labral tear in my hip and have chronic sciatica, so for 4+ months sitting upright was excruciatingly painful (It’s still not comfortable). Editing requires sitting upright for hours on end - but I fought through it to get this thing done for y’all. 5) Shipping costs have skyrocketed since Polymer was launched and I’m already running on E. Yeah, nobody wanna hear that, so I don’t talk about it.

Look, I’m eternally thankful for everyone who supported with pre-orders to make this thing entire thing possible. EVERYTHING I ANNOUNCED IS COMING. You’ve made it this far, either you riding with me or not. I’ve poured every ounce of everything I can possibly give into this entire process and that’s all I can do. If you don’t hear from me, it’s because I’m protecting my own mental health - if that’s a problem for you, considering everything you know about me, my work and my dedication to this fan-base - then so be it.

I’ll be back with shipping/premiere details shortly.
- Tone

Considering how long it took for an album like Archetype to be finished completely… as amazing as that album is, this album/documentary taking longer doesn’t surprise me at all. ESPECIALLY if it’s all being done by one person essentially. I think we as fans can sometimes forget that. Not saying Timo did that cause I understand what he’s saying completely. I just think sometimes we forget as indie hip hop fans that our favorite artists sometimes don’t have that huge team to help. It sucks and its not fair but it is what it is at this point. That’s personally why I’m not mad.

Plus… I’m still dissecting the album. There’s a LOT to take in. Had I seen the documentary a couple months after listening to the album it might have been overwhelming as a fan to take in. I’m glad I had the time to dissect the album on my own before getting all of the other physical pieces. Once again though that’s just me personally. I can understand the frustration on both ends. However, unless we know what the artist is going through we can’t really compare them.

CATM was officially announced in 2003 on SSV1 and got officially put on hiatus in 2011. Polymer was announced in 2012 and the album came out in 2016. We also got a PAR EP in that time frame. If you stuck around for the first I don’t understand how this is bad. In my opinion in terms of his worth ethic for his own projects.. Tone has actually improved within the past few years or so. I really do believe that. There was SO much that went into this release and we still got a Trapazoyd album in the process.

Tonedeff said:Your point about “it would be a PR nightmare with a bigger audience” is moot - If I was in that position to begin with, I wouldn’t have to do all this by myself in the first place.

The point I was trying to make is that you’re incredibly lucky to have a core fan base that essentially never criticises you - even though they’ve put up with a lot of bullshit and displayed so much patience and confidence in you. I don’t think it’s any secret either that you don’t take criticism very well and ever since “everybody knows” came out there’s been a growing sense of arrogance from you that you just will not listen to anything anyone is trying to tell you, even when they’re trying to help. Even when what they have to say might have a lot of value in addressing your problems. You can’t see anything from anyone else’s perspective. You know best.

My post above isn’t just some entitled fan rage - petty frustrations boiled over - it’s a desperate last attempt at reaching you to recognise that you need to do something to address this situation. A gesture that you actually care about the people who you expect to follow you blindly though all of this. A proper acknowledgement of how shit this whole situation has been. You need to display some sort of willingness to make things right. To mitigate the damage caused by alienating your paying fans. Your attitude has been terrible.The tide is turning and once the waves crash you won’t be able to just flick a switch and make it all ok again. People are checking out and you’re watching them go by - seemingly with the attitude of ‘fuck you if you don’t just accept how I’m doing things’. That doesn’t look good.

You’re an incredibly intelligent guy Tone, but sometimes you don’t seem to see what’s right in front of you until it smacks you in the face - and you’re not listening to the people calling out the hazards ahead.

Tonedeff said:[ 4) I’ve been in poor health. Beyond the anxiety/depression/stress cycle, I had a labral tear in my hip and have chronic sciatica, so for 4+ months sitting upright was excruciatingly painful (It’s still not comfortable). Editing requires sitting upright for hours on end - but I fought through it to get this thing done for y’all. 5) Shipping costs have skyrocketed since Polymer was launched and I’m already running on E. Yeah, nobody wanna hear that, so I don’t talk about it.

As a human being - I feel sorry for you. Honestly I do. That all sounds awful for a person to go through. But as a fan.. I’ve heard all this before. Your physical/mental health turns to glass every time a release date is near and I think we all know it’s because you push yourself to the brink (usually because you take things way too far). But these health issues are not some invulnerable defence, not when this pattern happens every time. Eventually people get bored of hearing the excuses and they start to ask why haven’t you learnt from mistakes in the past? Why does this keep happening to you and why aren’t you doing things differently this time? What changes have you made? You’re not the only independent musician in the world that does everything themselves - you just seem to think you’re above the rest and deserve special treatment.

It eventually starts to look like you’re just romanticising the image of the tortured artist, that you’re defining yourself by your own victimisation instead of making any attempts to break the cycle. Maybe that isn’t the case, but when you don’t communicate and people are left to assume - that’s how it looks.

Tonedeff said:I made an album AND a documentary. It takes TEAMS of people YEARS to make EITHER of those things. I did it alone. For emphasis: ALONE. 3) This documentary is AS important to me as the album was. It might be more important overall.

I want to believe that this documentary is going to be incredible - but I am genuinely worried it’s going to be 2 hours of you complaining about how hard it all was to do and looking for sympathy or to get everyone to admire you for putting yourself through so much masochism. You are the one that decided to make a film by yourself with no help.. not your fans. If a choice was given I think most of us would have preferred it was just a basic run-down of songs if it meant it would have got those physical packages out a year ago. I would for sure - and I’ve got to be one of the nerdier fans. People would have happily accepted less if it meant you didn’t risk and damage your own health because of it - and people have been telling you this stuff for years.

We’ve all admired you at some point for pushing things to the absolute limit for your art - but there has to be a line. You’ve wandered past that line for a while now and it just seems like you’re making things difficult for the sake of being difficult. We don’t want to wait 10 years for an album, We don’t need to see you go 150% all the time, we don’t want to see you hurt and torture yourself - we want to see you have fun, to enjoy making your art. We want to enjoy following it. People are happy to follow you where you take the lead, but the last 5 or so years of your career have just been the sound of the world’s screechiest violin string. The experience of being a Tonedeff fan has sucked for a while now - and that is such a sad and painful statement for me to post on this message board.

Again.. perhaps the scale of this disappointment hasn’t been vocalised properly. Before Polymer was even announced we were desperate for a new Tonedeff project. The wait had already been too long at the start. Every EP was then delayed, some by considerable distances. The wait for the whole album to drop felt like forever and when it finally came out, I think many of us were already past the point of frustration. It acted as a temporary relief, a breath of fresh air after being given so many assurances for years that there was a wave of things on the horizon. And then everything went black again. It was like it never happened. The physical edition was originally quoted to come out soon after the music because ‘everything was in place’.. but then the scale of the documentary expanded and now it’s the new ‘thing’ to be pushed back like everything else. The album still isn’t finished. What people paid for still doesn’t exist.

The physical component to Polymer was part and parcel of the excitement for the album - I was even originally considering holding off listening to the full project until I had it on vinyl. But for the Polymorph idea to work.. for all those extra pieces to have value to your fans, for it to be worth your time putting it together - it needs to hit when it means something. There’s a window of time there whether you like it or not, whether you accept it or not., whether you’re healthy or ill. Where things are now: there’s a good chance that there’s dozens of people out there who are gonna feel resentment rather than excitement when this box turns up. That’s how brutal this wait has been - and when questioned about it you shrug and make out like people don’t have a right to know what’s going on. Like we’re assholes if we don’t like it.

If you want to take 20 years to make your next project, that’s up to you. If you want to start making films instead of music, then that’s up to you. But when you’ve already accepted people’s money and made assurances - there’s responsibility. The art excuse doesn’t hold up when you’ve created a business transaction and haven’t delivered on your end. We delivered on ours. $100 goes a long way in my life right now and it was a lot more to me when I ordered it 5 years ago. And I didn’t just order one. Maybe next time if you want to take money up front you should start a just giving page and ask people to support your music making process rather than connecting it to any individual product. We paid the price of admission, we deserve a show.

Again.. there could have been so many easy gestures to alleviate the delay. Why haven’t we heard some remixes? Why haven’t we got a Polyblog? Where are the videos? We thought they were done? I thought TACM was gonna start up again? Where is the fan-service? A few little breadcrumbs here and there wouldn’t have fixed how long the wait was, but it would have helped. You have to remember that from your perspective you’re doing so many things constantly, but from our perspective the landscape looks barren. People are sick of hearing excuses, sick of hearing that the next thing is delayed again, sick of promises of things to come.. we want action. People need something to care about or they’ll stop caring. Many already have. If you’re doing this album purely for yourself regardless of what your fans think, then you shouldn’t have put a price on it.

I didn’t want to be the one to be the villain here, but I’m trying to force the conversation because it needs to had and nobody is saying anything on either side. This is how people are feeling and we haven’t been talking about it.

I didn’t want to make this about me at any point - but let me just detail who this is all coming from. I’ve spent thousands and thousands of dollars supporting QN5. I’ve bought multiple copies of every single project for years. I’ve flown across the planet several times to be at megashows (mainly to see Tonedeff). I’ve campaigned with friends to listen to QN5 music for over a decade, I’ve turned dozens and dozens of people into fans - some of them also paying customers. I’ve posted essays and essays of passionate TLDR’s on this message board for years. I’ve met incredible friends because of this label, had some of the best memories of my life because of this label, I’ve painstakingly analysed every detail of albums, been supportive in any possible way I can. I’ve loved being a Tonedeff fan, even though it’s always been difficult. I’ve stuck through hard times with a smile on my face.

But right now.. it is purely masochism following along. It’s a frustrating and tiring experience that makes me not want to care anymore for the sake of my own mental health. It’s like listening to that friend who is always saying they’re gonna break up with their abusive boyfriend but keeps going back to him anyway. I feel sorry for you, but I just don’t want to listen to the sob story on repeat anymore, especially if you’re not changing anything about it.

This post isn’t about me threatening that people will lose interest, it’s not an attack or a twist of the knife, it’s a siren to do something about what’s already happening. It’s a call to make a change before it’s too late. At least pretend to give a shit about these concerns, address the problems in a way that isn’t just about how unfortunate you always are, make some gestures of good faith, repair bridges, be a salesman, excite us for this documentary if it really is something worth celebrating. Make some noise. Fuck about.. record some bullshit conversations with your friends.. make a trapezoid single in an evening just for the sake of it.. you’re capable of creating and entertaining so much even when you barely try. Let us celebrate who you are and what you’re capable of. We want to support and be fans.. it shouldn’t be a difficult job for us.

I’ll make this short, since I lack the brutal eloquence of Timo above, but I feel that his statements require background singers in order for the effect to be fully realized.

There has been a simmering frustration just beneath the surface of this community for quite a while now. These aren’t the clueless, rabid jackals you’ll find in the comment section of your every Facebook post, asking when you’re going to tour in [insert obscure city here] expecting you to drop your verse from 616 Rewind. These are your core fans who have followed every painstaking detail of your career.

The excuses, although likely valid, ring hollow at this point. We’ve already read this story. As stated above, this is all well and good when you are pursuing your art and looking for inspiration for your next endeavor. Our patience is monk-like when it comes to that. But this is a product that has been paid for in full, with empty hands to show for it.

I don’t even remember which versions I bought. I’ve moved twice since then. At a certain point, you learn to treat it as a lost gamble and move on.

I truly hate that this feels like an attack as I’m writing this. We’re still all rooting for you, Tone. Truly. But grimacing behind our smiles can only last so many years.

Aphorism said:I truly hate that this feels like an attack as I’m writing this. We’re still all rooting for you, Tone. Truly. But grimacing behind our smiles can only last so many years.

This is exactly it. We’ve pretended to be okay with this for so long because we care, but it can only stretch so far. I wouldn’t be wasting my time here if it didn’t come from a place of love. We miss you Tone.

^ I think what’s important is that everyone here just ‘listens’ to each other before responding. If we as a community can show how tight we really are - this conversation is an opportunity to be an example of how we can handle disagreements and a topic that’s obviously sensitive to all of us.

However this conversation unfolds - as long as everyone can really hear each other out both fans and Tone - then that’s all I care about. Hopefully what comes out of this is that we can self-asses and not be as defensive or bitter but become better and learn something from it.

Peace and love to the squad from the fans to the artists.

Timo I appreciate your honesty. If I was feeling the way you were, I could imagine how hard it is to express those sentiments for an artist you absolutely love and admire.